(S2E13) The Glorious Seventh Trumpet

In this episode, Gordon and Mark explore the profound significance of the Seventh Trumpet from Revelation, presenting it as a decisive turning point.  It is arguably the most important moment since Christ’s first coming.  This event marks the visible fulfillment of God’s redemptive plan and the long-awaited transition of authority from the kingdoms of this world to the reign of Jesus Christ.

They connect this moment to the earlier declaration that there would be “no more delay.” What God has been unfolding across centuries now reaches completion.  The Seventh Trumpet is not simply another judgment.  It is the culmination of God’s purposes in history.

The hosts begin by clarifying key points from the previous episode which they felt needed a bit more attention.  They distinguish between Ezekiel’s future Temple, associated with the Millennial Kingdom, and a potential Temple operating during the Tribulation.  They also revisit the role of the Two Witnesses, emphasizing their legal function as God’s appointed testimony against evil.  Drawing from Deuteronomy, where truth is established by two witnesses, they explain that the witnesses expose the Antichrist’s rebellion and justify God’s coming judgment.  Their 1,260-day ministry likely aligns with the latter half of the 70th week, overlapping with the trampling of Jerusalem and the height of Antichrist activity.

Another key clarification is structural.  The Third Woe is understood to occur and complete before the Seventh Trumpet is sounded.  This notion suggests that Revelation’s timeline is not strictly linear, but overlapping and layered, with events unfolding in a more complex sequence.

When the Seventh Trumpet finally sounds, heaven erupts in proclamation:  “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ.”  This declaration signals a transfer of authority from Satan’s temporary dominion to the rightful rule of Jesus Christ.  The language used also shifts in a subtle but powerful way.  The familiar phrase “who is and who was and who is to come” becomes simply “who is and who was,” implying that Christ has already arrived in His ruling capacity and He is no longer “to come,” but now reigning.

This moment initiates the fulfillment of prophecies such as those found in 1 Corinthians 15 and Isaiah 9, where Jesus establishes His rule and reign on earth.  This begins the Millennial Kingdom, a thousand-year reign of Christ.  The text also states that God’s wrath “came” (past tense), which the hosts interpret as evidence that the Bowl Judgments occur prior to this moment in the timeline, not after it.

Humanity is now clearly divided into two groups.  Believers are rewarded and resurrected, entering into Christ’s reign.  Unbelievers face a form of preliminary judgment, awaiting final sentencing at the Great White Throne.  This division aligns with broader biblical themes such as the separation of the sheep and goats.

The episode also highlights a powerful symbolic moment which is the opening of the heavenly Temple, revealing the Ark of the Covenant.  This signifies full access to God’s presence, completing what began when the veil was torn at Jesus’ crucifixion.  What was once restricted is now fully revealed and accessible.

The hosts conclude by describing why the Seventh Trumpet is truly “glorious.” It represents:

• The fulfillment of prophecy
• The victory of Christ
• The judgment of evil
• The reward of the faithful
• The restoration of God’s kingdom and presence 

Ultimately, this moment affirms that God’s plan has reached its appointed end.  The King has taken His throne, His promises are fulfilled, and His kingdom is established forever.

Transcript

Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello, everyone. Welcome to our podcast called On Guard, Discerning Truth in End Times. My name is Gordon Douglas, and I'm here with my brother Mark.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. We're glad to have you back with us.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

We are so glad that you continue to listen to us and our podcast. With today's episode, we have reached an incredible milestone in this end time story in the book of Revelation. You should be able to see from the name of this episode just how we feel about it. The name of the episode is The Glorious Seventh Trumpet, and you will quickly learn why we believe this one to be so glorious.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Like Gordon said at the blowing of this seventh trumpet, we have reached a milestone in our reading, and when it happens in our future, we will have reached a milestone in our reality.

Ezekiel's Temple (the 4th Temple)

SPEAKER_00 0:53

But before we get to that seventh trumpet today, we need to offer a few follow-ups from the discussion we started last week. We need to talk a minute about Ezekiel's future temple. We need to finish the discussion of the two witnesses, and then we will get into the glorious seventh trumpet. So, Mark, talk to us about Ezekiel's temple.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

All right. Last week we spent quite a bit of time discussing all the previous versions of the house of God, right? The tabernacle and the first and second temple. We also described the third temple, which symbolically and spiritually can represent believers that have the Holy Spirit in their lives while still expecting an actual brick and mortar building likely that will be built. But it dawned on us that we never actually spoke about Ezekiel's temple, the one we believe is prophesied for the future millennial period. So we wanted to do that now as a way of completing the full history of the temples. You know, there's a temple described in Scripture by Ezekiel. For our discussions, we're going to call this one the fourth temple, while recognizing that the third temple hasn't even been built yet. Alright, so this fourth temple is described in Ezekiel chapters 40 and 48. And just know there is some confusion and some disagreement about what this temple is even about or whether it's even one that is actually going to be built. Yeah, that absolutely. Here's some thoughts on it though. Ezekiel had seen the glory of God depart from Solomon's temple in Ezekiel chapter 10. And then God gave him a very detailed vision of a future temple while Israel was still in exile in Babylon. In Ezekiel chapters 40 through 42, Ezekiel is taken in visions to the land of Israel and shown a temple so large and specific that his writings about it read like a true architectural plan. An angel measures gates and courts, chambers, walls, and the sanctuary itself. This vision is far more detailed than just a mere symbol. It presents a real, ordered, holy place that we believe God intends to establish in the future. A critical moment, though, comes in Ezekiel chapter 43, verses 1 through 7, when the glory of the Lord, which had departed from the first temple because of Israel's sin, actually returns from the east and fills this future house. God says, This is the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. This temple is different from the tabernacle. It's different from Solomon's temple, and it's different from Herod's temple. It has dimensions and features that do not match the earlier temples, and it is connected to a reordered land, a restored priesthood, and a renewed worship system. Ezekiel chapter 47 describes a river flowing out from the temple, bringing life wherever it goes, which points to worldwide blessing flowing from the presence of God. This is why many believe Ezekiel is describing a millennial temple, which is a future sanctuary associated with the Messiah's reign on earth. How about that? How about that? In our understanding, this future fourth temple is not the same as the great tribulation temple, which we call the third temple. Ezekiel's temple fits best after the Lord's return, when he is reigning. Israel is restored, the land is reallocated, and the glory of God has come back into this house. So when people talk about a future temple, we will be careful to distinguish between the possible temple of the end times crisis period and the temple Ezekiel saw that was way out in the future.

Two Witnesses Final Comments

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Okay, all right, that's good information. So just know, he said it, but just know that many people have had different thoughts about Ezekiel's temple in those last chapters of Ezekiel. But we do believe that in the thousand-year millennial reign of Jesus on this earth, this temple will be a real temple in Jerusalem, and it will be a central location of Jesus' rule and reign. We will talk more about the millennium when we get to it late in the book of Revelation. So now let's finish the discussion of the two witnesses that we started last week. Revelation chapter 11, verses 3 through 13 gives us an interesting passage about these two witnesses. So let's read that again. Bear with me, it's right long. So, starting with verse 3, quote, and I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If any one would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. They have the power to shut the sky that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom in Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days, some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, Come up here, and they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched. And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is soon to come.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

So last week we told you a lot about these two witnesses and what they were doing and how they fit into the narrative and timeline of things in the story. Today we want to talk about who they might be and find out whether this adds any new information that we need to know. As we get into the discussion this week, I want to start with a couple verses I just read while preparing for this episode. In Scripture, there is a foundational biblical idea that a witness is someone who establishes that something is true. But did you know it takes two witnesses minimal to resolve a matter? So in Deuteronomy chapter 19, verses 15 through 21, Scripture says this A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offence that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established. If a malicious witness arises to accuse a person of wrongdoing, then both parties to the dispute shall appear before the Lord, before the priest, and the judges who are in office in those days. The judges shall inquire diligently, and if the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely, then you shall do to him as he meant to do to his brother. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and the rest shall hear and fear, and shall never again commit any such evil among you. Your eye shall not pity, it shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. This is so great. These two witnesses that Gordon just read about are doing exactly what God requires to be done as defined in the law he gave us. They are providing truth about the malicious witness who has been accused of wrongdoing. They are speaking to and about the Antichrist and his actions in the temple. And when the evil is proven, our responsibility under the law is to purge the evil from our midst, which is what God is just about to do to the Antichrist and the false prophet. So we see God in action following the exact tenets of the law he gave us in the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

In many ways, we seemed surprised by the fact that God's words and actions line up, but at this point it should come as no surprise. He will not contradict himself and his word. In the previous episode, we left you with five questions related to these two witnesses. They were as follows. Are these two witnesses people, or are these two witnesses symbols for something? Number two, if they are people, who might they be? If not, what might they represent? Three, can we determine when they will appear and how they fit into the timeline of the seven-year period of the Great Tribulation? And then four, who is this beast that rises from the bottomless pit and kills them? And then last, number five, does their death and resurrection correlate with the first resurrection and the rapture? Bible readers interpret these two witnesses in one of two ways, either as literal people or as something more symbolic. Remember, under the rules of biblical hermeneutics, which are rules for interpretation of scripture, when symbolic language is used, the Bible must provide a definition of that symbol. If the Bible does not provide a direct meaning, then the interpretation would be left to the imagination of the interpreter, which can be dangerous because interpretation can quickly become shaped by personal opinion, bias, or the limits of one's own knowledge rather than by the text itself. Both Mark and I think the language in this section of Revelation gives way too much detail pointing to these two witnesses as being specific people for it to actually be symbolic. It is hard for me to read the entire passages and to think they are not real people. John describes two witnesses who speak in prophetic voices, wear sackcloth, are attacked, are killed, lie dead in the street, seen by the world, are raised by God, and are called up to heaven. That kind of language reads far more naturally as two real people. They are carrying out a real prophetic ministry in a real place at a real time in history.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

If you choose the symbolic path, there is a way that these witnesses might not be two individuals. The Bible does refer to certain other non-humans as witnesses. We have seen examples such as covenants or altars of stones or even full heaven and earth. Recall that Moses calls heaven and earth as witnesses against the people of Israel in Deuteronomy chapter 4, verses 26. Also in Deuteronomy 31, verse 26, the book of the law is placed beside the ark, that it may be there for a witness against Israel. Jesus even says that his disciples would be his witnesses to the ends of the earth when commissioning them in their service to spread the gospel in Acts chapter one, verse eight. So there are definitely times when the scriptures point to things other than specific people when they talk about witnesses. But the burden of proof, in my opinion, falls on anyone else who would want to turn these witnesses into something other than two real servants of God. In this passage, we do not see the two witnesses clearly defined only as symbols. Because of that, we believe the most natural reading is the literal one. These two witnesses are two real living people whom God raises up, brings back for a specific prophetic purpose.

Who Are the Two Witnesses?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah. Raises up or brings back. That's right. So with the view of these two individuals as really being people, then who are they? Our research says there are basically three primary theories on who these two individuals will be. The first option is that they are Moses and Elijah, driven mostly from the specific miracles they are going to perform on their mission. These miracles align with the miracles that each of them individually was part of in their lifetime in the Old Testament. Elijah called down fire from heaven to consume his enemies in 2 Kings chapter 1. Moses was used as a tool by God to spread many plagues in Exodus chapter 7. Both men appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration in Matthew chapter 17. Lastly, Malachi, the book of Malachi, mentions both Moses and Elijah at the end of Malachi 4. He expressly quotes God saying, quote, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord, end quote. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

So the two witnesses could be Moses and Elijah. But a second option is that these two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah. In Genesis chapter 5, verse 23, it says that Enoch walked with God and then was no more. These words mean Enoch did not die. And in 2 Kings chapter 2, verse 11, Scripture says Elijah was taken into heaven by a whirlwind. These are also words that mean Elijah did not die. As far as Gordon and I know, these two people are the only ones God took to heaven without experiencing physical death before they got there. We know from Hebrews chapter 9, 27, that all are appointed to die once. Well, that fact that Enoch and Elijah have not died seems to qualify them as possibly people to return and be these two witnesses. Also, there are books of Enoch that we have referenced before which are not part of our Bible, but were widely known books related to Enoch's visions. He was shown visions of judgments, and even in times events. Both Elijah and Enoch were also considered prophets who announced judgments. One other point each of Enoch and Elijah represents different periods within God's timeline. Enoch lived before the flood, and Elijah and Moses were part of the period after the flood and before Jesus was born.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

So the two witnesses could be Enoch and Elijah. But the third option is one that's a little harder to support, but I guess it's a possibility. The two witnesses could be two unknown individuals that God has yet to tell us about or who they are. We never know it all. So maybe this is one of the unknown treasures that will be explained in our future, and we'll know it when we see it, I hope.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

I know you're looking for a complete answer to the question, and that means that this third option is a possible answer. But this one sounds too far off the path for me. God's way of working is to use types in the past as shadows of what we will see in the future. We've talked about that before. And two new random people doesn't seem to fit that way of operating. So I vote no on option three.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Well, it's fun to speculate and discuss the possibilities of who these two witnesses will be. But the fact is that what they do is more important than who they are. I wouldn't be able to look at Moses or Enoch or Elijah and recognize which one was which anyway.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Well, if you grow that beard again, maybe people will think you're one of them. I guess that's right. But if Moses looks like Charlton Heston from the movie Ten Commandments, maybe we could identify. But aren't you going to tell us who you think they are?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

I'm not really sure. So I guess no, I'm not choosing. But seriously, no matter who they are, they will be sent and empowered by the Holy Spirit to do what God is asking them to do. And the real story is about what they are doing and why.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Okay. But I have a buddy in my once-a-month Bible study group that would say that answer is not good enough. He would challenge me to at least take a shot at a choice. I've gone round and round on this one. For the record, I believe we see Enoch and Elijah as the two witnesses. I believe the argument from Hebrews about dying once really matters. We see in Deuteronomy 34, verses 5 and 6, it says, So Moses, the servant of the Lord, died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord, and God buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor. But no one knows the place of his burial to this day. So Moses has died before and will not or should not have to die again.

When Do the Witnesses Arrive?

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Okay, well, Elijah and Enoch is probably a good choice, but it could be Moses and Elijah, I still think. I could go kind of either way. You know, the real story is about what they're doing again, you know, and why they're doing it. We talked about that last week. Where do they fit into the timeline of the seven-year period? Can we fit them into the timeline of what we know?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

We both know that this question is one we've discussed quite a bit. We want to understand whether these two witnesses show up at the beginning of the seven-year tribulation and testify during the years leading up to the midpoint of it, or do they appear around the time when the Antichrist is revealed and then testify from that point through the duration of the actual Great Tribulation. So let's go back to the text and see what clues might be there. So let's let's list what we see. In verse 3, we see they prophesy for 1,260 days. In verse 4, we see they are called two olive trees and two lampstands. In verse 5 and 6, they have God ordained protection and power. In verse 7, when they have finished their testimony, they are killed by the beast that rises from the bottomless pit. Verse 8 to 10, they will lie dead in the street for three and a half days, while the people of earth rejoice over their death. And verse 11 and 12, after three and a half days, the breath of God will resurrect them and call them up to heaven. And finally, verse 13, a great earthquake will accompany their ascension, and the people of earth will be terrified.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

So they prophesy for 1,260 days, a 1260-day period. There's no place in Scripture that that amount of time ever refers to the first half of the seven-year period of the tribulation. There's no place. We know that a seven-year period is made up of two halves, which are equal and both contain these time frames, but the only half that is ever referred to with this time marker is the back half or the actual Great Tribulation. So I think mentioning of this 1260 days is meant to show it as a correspond, you know, corresponding to that final three and a half years.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Also, immediately preceding verse 3 and verse 2, Scripture says that the nations will trample the outer court of the temple for 42 months, which is the same exact amount of time as the 1,260 days. We both believe that connection is meant to align these events. And using the Deuteronomy chapter 19, verse Verses 15 to 21 verses, these two witnesses will have seen the wrongdoing, i.e., the actual abomination, you know, that occurred at that midpoint.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

But there are those who believe these witnesses are introduced at the beginning and in the first half of the seven-year period. But there are those who believe these witnesses are introduced in the first half of the seven-year period. So let's look at the other clues that are in the passage.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

The way in which they yield their power and are provided protection seems like the language that might correspond to some of the trumpet judgments. They could call down plagues and fire from heaven. These could be ways in which these judgments are actually released. It doesn't feel to us like this type of activity might be going on in the first half of the tribulation.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Then they are actually killed by the beast that rises from the bottomless pit once their testimony is finished. We haven't discussed that beast at all, but this is a reference to the Antichrist. We'll have a full episode on him in the near future. For now, we're going to leave it at that. But he really doesn't become empowered until the midpoint of the tribulation. So we think killing these witnesses as his very first action after being empowered doesn't really make sense.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Then we read that these witnesses were resurrected and called up to heaven with the whole world watching. We believe that this language is meant to align this time with the first resurrection and what we know as the rapture. If so, that puts it close to the end of the Great Tribulation.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

So after taking into account all these facts, our conclusion is that these two witnesses are here prophesying during the Great Tribulation or the last half of the seven-year period. But we can see arguments for them being in the first half. I'm listening to teaching that is adamant that for them to actually fulfill a whole 1,260 days and then lie in the streets for another three and a half days, they must be in the first half. Also, this interpretation says that the people of earth who rejoice when they are killed and give presence to each other are going to be in no mindset to do that at the very end when they are terrified and hiding under rocks.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

I know. Nevertheless, we believe that the two witnesses come on the scene around the time of the Antichrist when he stands in the temple and claims to be God. We believe their testimony is God's way of giving truth during a hard and trying time for people of faith. These witnesses will be preaching endurance and perseverance to those Christians who are still here and repentance to those who have not yet believed. We believe that God will allow anyone who will hear the truth to get it straight from Him through these messengers. They are his chosen ones to do just that task.

The 7th Trumpet, called Glorious

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Exactly right. Exactly right. I think the primary message of the two witnesses is one of warning and repentance. They are warning the people of the world that they are being judged. They are telling the world that they are utterly rebellious against God. They are shouting from the rooftops about the need to repent and do it quickly. In verse 10, it says that they are being a torment to those who dwell on the earth. This just means that they are calling them out as to their rebellion. They are saying that the world is utterly defiled and sentenced to death unless they turn immediately from their rebellion and repent. This message will force a response from everyone. All men will be without excuse when they are judged. The gospel will be preached with urgency and truth. This message of the eternal gospel will get two reactions. Some will hear it and repent, but many will not. They will harden their hearts against God as they are lovers of this world. Now, let's move on and talk about the real topic of this episode, the glorious seventh trumpet. So, Mark, why would we call it the glorious seventh trumpet?

Positioning Woe 3 with the 7th Trumpet

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Because this trumpet marks a major moment of fulfillment. Up to this point, God's plan has been unfolding step by step. But now we arrive at a moment when what has been hidden becomes fully into view. Do you remember what the mighty angel said back a couple episodes ago in Revelation chapter 10, verses 6 and 7? Here's what he said. There would be no more delay. In the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled. For believers, this moment is glorious because it means God is bringing his purposes to completion. The blowing of this trumpet by the seventh angel is the kind of moment God's people have long hoped for and waited to see. It is the moment the souls under the altar have been calling for. At the same time, we need to be careful with the text, because this trumpet can be misunderstood if we move too quickly. So let's dig into the details to try to understand it.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

All right, I get where you're coming from. Just to remind the listeners, aren't we also in the middle of a string of prophecies about three woes? If you go back to Revelation 8, verse 13, we read that the final three trumpets are also called three woes to those who dwell on the earth. See if you recall this detail. Well, we read the fifth trumpet was a woe, the first one, to people on earth as locusts tormented anyone from the seal of God on their forehead. We saw the sixth trumpet was a woe, the second one, that brought plagues and killing to the people of earth. So it could seem the seventh trumpet would be called the final woe. How can that be? If the seventh trumpet is a woe, how can it also be glorious?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

You are right. That can be a bit confusing. Unfortunately, that interpretation is not correct. Let's set the stage so we can understand it better. I think the critical text comes from the verses from Revelation 10, which I mentioned a moment ago. There is a period of time surrounding the blowing of this seventh trumpet where quite a bit of action happens, so that when the seventh trumpet is actually blown, the third woe will have already been completed. Okay. There is a separation and a distinction here between these two symbols. Right here in this text of the seventh trumpet from chapter 11, we don't get the full details of the third woe, but only the notion that it has been completed and its results are over.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

All right, that makes sense. So let's read the scripture now from Revelation chapter 11, verses 14 to 18. This scripture says, quote, The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is soon to come. Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven saying, The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever. And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign. The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth. Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Alright, so just to complete the thought about sequencing from above, after we've done the reading, see right there in verse 14 and the first half of verse 15, the sequence we just talked about is stated. This implies the third woe will follow the second woe and will occur before the seventh trumpet is actually blown. There is a gap defined there if you can see it in the verses. From our studies, the whole third woe has its own details in a chapter in Revelation, which we will get to next season. There is a whole lot of action embedded in that short little phrase.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

And we will hold off describing all that detail until we get to it later in another episode, like Mark said, next season. For now, let's focus on the blowing of this seventh trumpet with the agreement that the third woe starts and is completed before this time of blowing the seventh trumpet, okay?

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yep, I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

All right. I'm going to make a statement, and it is not an overstatement. The event, the blowing of the seventh trumpet, is the most significant event that has happened since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in his first coming. This verse is written as though something just happens. Please don't miss this. After the events and at the culmination here, many important prophetic things have been finalized.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

You said it. There is a lot going on here. I think the most significant announcement is by the loud voices in heaven. The loud voices declare an incredible proclamation. When the seventh trumpet is blown, here's what they say: The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever. Amen. Do you see the statement? Jesus has finally taken over the world. This is it. This is the incredible moment. This is the significant shift in God's plan of redemption.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, I love the literal translation of the Greek, which says, quote, the kingdoms of the world became our lords, even of his Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages, end quote. And that truth is why we call it the glorious seventh trumpet. There's a passage in the book of John that helps us understand things. John chapter 18, verse 33 and 36 is when Jesus was standing before Pontius Pilate. It says, quote, Pilate called Jesus and said to him, Are you the king of the Jews? And then later Jesus answered. He said, My kingdom is not of this world. End quote. Jesus answered adamantly when speaking with Pilate about his kingdom not being of this world. We know Jesus came into the world the first time for another purpose. Jesus went on to say that his first coming was for the purpose of bearing witness to the truth. But now, when he comes again, it will be a different story. His second coming will change everything. And here it is, happening at the seventh trumpet. We cannot wait for this to happen. We all should be eagerly awaiting this time. We don't yet understand all the events that need to happen to get us there. We have much more to learn and study, but there is no doubt this is a time we are yearning for. That passage says that the kingdom of this world, which we now understand is under some control of Satan, will no longer be Satan. The rightful heir and king has seized control at the blowing of the seventh trumpet. We know that king to be Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

That is correct. There is a song floating in my head by Phil Wickham. The main chorus line of that song has these words The king is in the room. What a powerful song. And oh my, what a powerful moment the seventh trumpet is going to be. The king will be here in this place. And as you said, he will have seized control. We will eventually get to see how it happens as we read those details in Revelation chapters 12 and through 19. But for today, we just want to see from this passage exactly all the things it says have happened by the time Jesus takes back his kingdom. To make sure you really get this point, we are marching along, going forward in time, but at the blowing of the seventh trumpet, we have now changed our perspective. We are now looking backwards in time at what has just occurred.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

That's right. In those days surrounding this trumpet blast, some events have happened prior to, some happen at the exact blowing, and some might happen shortly after. I'll say that even when we get into the detail of everything, it will be hard to put things exactly in order. But let's look at each thing being mentioned. We're going to find out how big an event this seventh trumpet really is. All right.

Events of the 7th Trumpet

SPEAKER_01 35:27

The first thing we notice is that when these loud voices make this proclamation, it will be an incredible time of worship. John saw the 24 elders fall down and immediately worship God. It's likely that everyone will fall down and worship at this moment. There will be a reason to worship. Once Jesus Christ seizes control of the world, he will have it forever and ever. We will want to worship God, the Father, and His Son Jesus Christ. They have made incredible promises about all that is to come and will be right at that time on the doorstep where many of them will come to realization. That's right.

Text "Who Is To Come" Is Missing

SPEAKER_00 36:06

These verses say a whole lot. Let's see what the specific items are. First, there's language in verse 17 that acknowledges the Lord God Almighty as the one who is and who was. But then that phrase stops from how we've always heard and read that verse. It says, second, it says the Lord has taken his great power and begun to reign. Next, it says the nations raged. Next, but it says that God's wrath came. Next, it says that the time came for the dead to be judged. Next, it says the time came for rewarding the Lord's servants, the prophets and the saints, and for those who fear his name. And then last it says, the time came for destroying the destroyers of the earth.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

So let's take these one at a time and see all that has happened. We're trying to find out based upon this language what specifically has gone on.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

We've always thought of our Lord as the one, quote, who is and who was and who is to come, end quote. In fact, we're told in this very book, in Revelation chapter 1, verse 8, that very phrase, the verse says, quote, I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come the Almighty, end quote. It is clear from the beginning of this prophecy, at the beginning of Revelation, that before all of the sealed trumpet, thunder, and bold events happened, that condition was still the case. We know that one of the foundational pieces of our faith is that Jesus Christ will come again, and we are looking now for his second coming.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

That's right. But here in Revelation 11, in the days surrounding the blowing of this seventh trumpet, we get a shorter version of that phrase. These 24 elders are giving thanks to the Lord God who is and who was. But the text stops there. The remaining segment of that phrase, which we are accustomed to seeing included, is no longer in the text. The segment who is to come is no longer there. The elders are no longer looking for him to come. The obvious point being that he has already indeed come at this trumpet's blowing. Yes. And he will be the one who is forever. There is no more waiting on the who is to come phrase. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

So we believe that when the seventh trumpet is blown, the second coming of Jesus will have already happened. Is that right? How did we miss it? I hadn't seen it yet.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

I think that's right. We didn't miss it. We just haven't seen all that detail yet. This is the point of the sequence discussion we had about the third woe. The second woe happened, and we were told the third woe would happen. And then the text in the verse jumps to the blowing of the seventh trumpet. There's detail that fits between the second woe and the seventh trumpet, which we haven't discussed. Like has been the case in much of the book of Revelation, God has given us the structure and framework before giving us the details. And we're going to read about those details in future chapters.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Okay.

Jesus To Rule and Reign

SPEAKER_01 39:29

So let's move on. Let's see what else it says. All right. We talked about the fact that Jesus Christ has begun to reign, but what does this really mean? What might that look like?

SPEAKER_00 39:38

There's a passage in 1 Corinthians that I think is really great in helping us to understand some of what this might mean. 1 Corinthians chapter 15, verses 20 through 28 is a scripture that everyone should write down and go read. In fact, this is one of the first passages I read about three years ago, which started me on this journey of such a deep dive into the scriptures. I read this passage and it made me want to understand things better. A very short paraphrase of this passage. I'm going to paraphrase it in one sentence, those eight verses. Actually, nine verses. And here's the paraphrase. At Jesus' second coming, he must reign until he puts all enemies under his feet.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

A lot of people miss that point that Jesus is returning to earth in a second coming, and he will remain here on earth for a purpose. He will not just grab us and take us back to heaven. There's language in other parts of the Bible which alludes to the saints helping Jesus to rule over the nations. And we know the famous passage from Isaiah 9, which says the government will be on his shoulders.

The Nations Raged

SPEAKER_00 40:45

We have referred to the millennium many times in this podcast. We won't read about that time until Revelation 20. But we believe that Jesus will set up a ruling and reigning government here on earth at and after his second coming, which will last for 1,000 years. He has purposes and plans for that time, which we have mentioned many times. Well, here at the seventh trumpet, he begins that reign. Amen. And the next phrase says that the nations raged. What are they raging about and what happened here?

SPEAKER_01 41:23

We all know that there's a prophesied war called the Battle of Armageddon. This is a well-known event that most Bible students know about, and we'll get to it later on. It's the last great end times battle in which evil powers gather against God and are overthrown. The nations have been raging against God, his people, and his message. With the witnesses and in other ways, they will be called out for their sins and punished for their rebellion against God and their attack against Israel.

Wrath "CAME"

SPEAKER_00 41:54

All people and all nations will be brought to a decision point to side with God's truth or choose against it. Satan will be lashing out and using all methods to fight and war against the truth. The Antichrist will lead an empire, and many nations will align with him to rage against what will be happening. The Antichrist knows at this point in time that his time is short.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

But this language tells us that at the blowing of this seventh trumpet their raging is complete, and that's because of what comes next. Next we read that the Lord's wrath came. This phrase is written in past tense. The ESV, which we read, says it very clearly. Other versions of the Bible say has come. Both interpretations are the same. The interpretation means it has already happened. It appears at this point on the timeline, we will be on the other side of that wrath, looking backward, and the third woe will have been completed.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Yes, here is that word again. We have discussed God's wrath many times. We believe that God's ultimate wrath comes in the form of bold judgments, which we have not yet read about. But I think the fact that we are now being told that the wrath has already come in this verse helps us to see that once again, those bowls don't happen chronologically after the trumpets. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

I think these verses show us that the bowls of wrath will happen underneath the time frame of that third woe and will complete just before the final trumpet blast. It's impossible to know just exactly how they fit within those trumpets, but at the blowing of this seventh trumpet, it clearly says the bowls have already occurred.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

And we're going to read all about those bold judgments very soon, actually, next season. So we aren't going to get into the details of them at all today. But I want to read you a verse, a few verses from Isaiah to show you the magnitude of what will happen. Isaiah chapter 63, verses 3 and 4, and then verse 6 says, Quote, I have trodden the winepress alone, and from the peoples no one was with me. I trod them in my anger and trampled them in my wrath. Their life blood spattered on my garments and stained on my apparel. For the day of the vengeance was in my heart, and my year of redemption had come. I trampled down the peoples in my anger, I made them drunk in my wrath, and I poured out their life blood on the earth.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

When the wrath of God and the Lamb of God show up, it will be conclusive and final against the enemies of God and all who choose to align with them. God has been patient and desires to show mercy and grace to any who will accept him and believe and repent. But there will come a day when his wrath will come. Isaiah chapter 34, verse 8 says, quote, For the Lord has a day of vengeance, unquote.

Time for the Dead to Be Judged

SPEAKER_00 45:14

And here at the seventh trumpet, that day has come. The wrath has been poured out. And when we reach that day, the offer of grace and mercy is no longer. The next phrase we read says, And the time for the dead to be judged. Mark, is this what is known as the Great White Throne Judgment?

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Many people know the Great White Throne judgment term, but no, I don't believe this text is referring to that moment in time. We will find out more about that term in a later chapter of Revelation. That will be a time when those judged to be guilty will be actually sentenced for their guilt. We believe that is clearly at the end of the millennium. I've pondered over the phrases in this sentence with all its commas. I've read verse 18 in eight to ten different Bible versions. I will be honest. The verse confuses me. I have bounced all over the place on its interpretation. Here is the total phrase, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged. What does it mean? Does this text mean God's wrath came, and through his wrath the spiritually dead were judged? Basically meaning his wrathful actions judged them by the simple fact that they denied God until the end. Or does this text mean God's wrath came and completed its task, and Jesus, who we know came at the appointed time during at or after the wrath, then somehow judged those that were left? I don't know. I have to say I'm even further puzzled by the fact that many Bibles misrepresent the tense of the phrase. All seem to agree that God's wrath came, but many Bibles use present and future verb tenses for the remainder of the phrases in that sentence. They seem to say the judging of the dead is future to the moment where the wrath is complete. I believe, look, I really believe they're all incorrect, but the commentaries you read are going to be really misleading if they follow this kind of interpretation. Here's, look, I believe this verse should read like this. This is with my emphasis added, okay? It should say, quote, versus verse 18, The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged came, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and for those who fear your name, both small and great, came, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth came. Gordon and I have again debated this thoroughly and researched the verb tenses from the original text. Here at this point, we believe these dead are spiritually dead people who are simply convicted and found to be guilty by God or Jesus. Some argue that these words actually foreshadow, some argue that these words actually foreshadow that as the coming great white throne judgment. But we know that there is a resurrection of those that have died without Christ, referred to as the second resurrection, which doesn't happen until the end of the millennium, where they're spiritually dead will be sentenced.

Rewarding Servants

SPEAKER_00 48:25

And we're going to read about that later. So the main point is that people have been divided into two categories. They are either saved by Jesus Christ, thus deemed innocent of all sin, or they are dead without him and found guilty. Those found guilty go to Hades until that second resurrection. This sounds a lot like the sheep and the goat's judgment from Matthew 25, verses 31 to 46, which is not too far in the scriptures from Jesus' Olivet Discourse. That passage could be worth reading for everyone. I'll caution you that it might be very hard to actually place that story in the timeline. I've tried my best over the years to do that and can't quite seem to fit it properly. But in concept, it certainly goes along with what we're saying here.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

And for those who have endured and persevered in their faith in Jesus Christ, we get to a time for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

And those who fear your name. I choose to be a servant of the Lord and one who fears his name and look forward to that point in time.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Yeah, me too. And there will be rewards for all who do. We know the greatest reward will be eternal life. Paul says in 2 Timothy chapter 4, verse 8, henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award me on that day, and not only to me, but also to all who have loved his appearing, end quote.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Being deemed righteous and being given that crown of righteousness will be a tremendous award, but the Bible describes other rewards, and some people don't like to talk about them. Many feel that looking for these rewards in some way diminishes the reason we have faith to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Yeah, we've had several discussions about this topic in my revelation classes. Some feel strange about being motivated by these rewards, but I believe the scriptures tells about these rewards as incentives for us. I don't see anything wrong with striving for them. Jesus tells us in one of his parables in Luke 14 that we will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

And listen to what Jesus says right at the end of Revelation chapter 22, verse 12. It says, quote, Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me to repay each one for what he has done, end quote. We might talk more specifically about these rewards at a later time when we get to Revelation chapter 22. But I want to zero in on the verse you read a minute ago. You said that in that parable in Luke 14, that these rewards will come at the resurrection of the just. Now, when we are told here at the blowing of the seventh trumpet that it is time for those rewards, then we can assume that is time when that first resurrection of the just has happened. We'll actually get to that verse in Revelation 20, which will clearly tell us about when that first resurrection takes place and what it means.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Yep, that's precisely correct. I think that point is what the verse is trying to say. At the seventh trumpet, this resurrection, called the first resurrection, has taken place. Remember, the rapture, which is closely behind the first resurrection, took place a couple trumpets back. And in those verses from Revelation 20, the rewards being given to believers is or are they came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. I think that's right.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

We will see from the Revelation 20 passage that we who are believers are raised to life to serve with Jesus, and the dead are left where they are until the end of the thousand years. I believe this aligns with what we have recently said about the rapture, the second coming, and the first resurrection, and that it all fits together. We can't place it specifically on a date, but it comes in the days surrounding the blowing of the seventh trumpet.

Destroyers Destroyed

SPEAKER_00 52:21

And uh just to be a little controversial for those who might still cling to a pre-tribulational rapture position, the time for these things happens in the days surrounding the seventh trumpet, not at the beginning of the seven years.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Okay, so let's move on to the final point in the passage. It says the time came for destroying the destroyers of the earth. This language just leaves no doubt. God's wrath will be destructive and vengeful. Jesus came back to take care of evil and sin, and now we get to move into the millennium.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

God will destroy evil. Sin came and destroyed that paradise. God wants it back, and he plans on restoring things. In order to do so, he must remove those who are deemed guilty of causing that destruction. In a minute, we have one more verse in chapter 11 to read and discuss. But Mark, summarize for us what this seventh trumpet language has told us.

Heaven IS Opened

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Okay, the seventh trumpet is glorious. Maybe we should just stop there. The seventh trumpet is glorious. It is the culmination of the great turning point where heaven declares that Jesus Christ has taken his rightful kingdom and begun to reign. And the king enters the room. It signals fulfillment, victory, resurrection, reward, and the beginning of Christ's rule and reign. This is the moment 66 books and about 31,000 verses of Scripture have been telling us about. Hallelujah. Yes, sir. Also, the third and final woe has been completed, where a rebellious world has seen God's wrath, judgment, and destruction of evil. The dead have been judged and are not a part of the first resurrection, and must wait for the great white throne judgment in another thousand years. In this moment, the faithful are vindicated, the wicked are judged, and the king has truly taken control. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Amen. And that's why that is our hope. Our hope is in getting to this seventh trumpet. It's our promises will be fulfilled. So this one more verse. The last verse of chapter 11 says, quote, Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hell, end quote. This one verse shows us something deeply important about the seventh trumpet. John says that the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen. That vision is very striking because throughout Israel's history, access to God's presence was restricted. No one but the high priest was allowed into the temple. And then only one time a year, in the tabernacle and later in the temple, the holy of holies was hidden behind the veil. That veil constantly reminded the people that God is holy and man is separated from him by sin.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Then, when Jesus died on that cross, that veil was torn in half, which indicated that through Christ's death, the barrier to God's presence had been removed, and that Jesus Christ became our great high priest with access to God. Jesus was not serving in that role in an earthly sanctuary, but entering the true heavenly one. So the story moves forward in stages. First, only the high priest could enter. Then Christ dies and becomes the high priest, and now he can enter. And now after this seventh trumpet is blown, all who belong to him are brought near. Revelation chapter 11, verse 19 is like the heavenly unveiling of that truth. The veil was torn at the cross, and now at this seventh trumpet, heaven itself is open. Through Jesus, what was once hidden is now revealed, and what was once barred is now made accessible to the people of God. In the episode on the temples, we made the point that God wanted to dwell with us. This is the beginning of that path. God has opened the way for us to Him and is showing us this image as a way of connecting what we know with who He is. The Old Testament figures knew that God was present on the Ark of the Covenant. Behind that veil, it was where he lived. We see in these verses that God is still there, but now the picture is bigger and fuller. What was once shown in shadow through the earthly tabernacle and temple is now revealed in heavenly reality. The opening of heaven shows that God's redemptive plan has always been moving towards this moment where his presence is no longer pictured as distant and hidden, but is open through Christ for all who are his.

Conclusion

SPEAKER_00 57:28

That's amazing. So, you know, we always look at the veil being torn as as removing the separation. We live in a state where we're separated from God the Father Himself. Yep. And at this seventh trumpet, that changes. And that ties directly to what we're saying. The seventh trumpet is not only a declaration that Christ is taking his great power and beginning to reign, but also a declaration that God's kingdom purposes are reaching their fulfillment. The opening of the heavenly temple reminds us that the king is taking his throne, and at the same time, the way into the presence of God stands open because of our great high priest. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

So thank you so much for listening to us today. You can subscribe to our podcast through your applications follow us button wherever you get your podcast. Also, please tell others about us if you can. Our main method of spreading our message is through fellow believers who are willing to forward it on. Please share our podcast with anyone you think might like to listen. Remember also that you can send us an email to notify at onguard244.com if you want to be on an email distribution list to receive notification of new episodes and seasons. Please update your spam controls and make sure our notification does not get redirected there or lost. Our notification will come from no reply at onguard244.com. Once again, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcast, iHeartRadio Podcast currently. Also, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook or at our website www.onguard244.com. If you have comments or an idea, then send those messages to comment at onguard244.com. Thank you. See you next week. See you next week.