On Guard: Discerning Truth in End Times
A call to awaken Christians about deception in these end times while also sharing the truth about Jesus Christ and His promises to both Christians and all others who will hear. We want believers to be aware of what the Bible says. Topics will include Revelation, Daniel, Great Tribulation, Biblical Prophecy, the Rapture, the Antichrist, God’s Wrath, etc.
On Guard: Discerning Truth in End Times
(S2E12) The Temple and Two Witnesses
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In this episode, Gordon and Mark explore Revelation 11:1–13, a significant interlude between the second and third Woes. This passage provides critical insight into events unfolding within the broader End Times timeline. The hosts divide the section into two parts: verses 1–2 which focus on the Temple, and verses 3–13 which introduce the Two Witnesses.
The episode opens with comments from Iran's Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi, who expressed support for Israel’s right to exist and suggested the potential transformation of the Abraham Accords into a “Cyrus Accords.” Gordon and Mark briefly reflect on how shifting geopolitical dynamics—particularly involving Iran and Israel—could intersect with prophetic expectations.
John is instructed to measure the Temple, the altar, and the worshipers, but not the outer court. This command raises an important interpretive question: Is this Temple a literal, physical structure or a symbolic representation of God’s people? While views differ, the hosts emphasize that Jesus clearly taught that believers themselves are the Temple of God. The inclusion of worshipers in the act of measuring suggests that God’s concern is not merely with a structure, but with true, authentic worship.
They explore the meaning of “measurement,” noting that it symbolizes ownership, evaluation against a standard, protection, and intentional design. Whether interpreted literally or symbolically, the act of measuring communicates that God is carefully distinguishing what belongs to Him.
The hosts agree a real, functioning Temple will be in place in the End Times. They point out that throughout biblical history God has consistently used a physical space as a meeting place with humanity through the Tabernacle and first two Temples. In this context, a future Temple may serve a specific prophetic purpose, even if it is not God’s ultimate dwelling. The exclusion of the outer court introduces another layer of meaning which may indicate a divided control of Jerusalem where the Temple proper is under Jewish authority, while the surrounding areas remain dominated by the nations. Symbolically, it may also reflect a distinction between God’s people and a world still under external control.
The text states the nations will trample the holy city for 42 months (3½ years) which is commonly associated with the midpoint or latter half of Daniel’s 70th week. The hosts note that for the Antichrist to enter and proclaim himself as God, as other Scriptures indicate, a physical Temple would need to exist.
The focus then shifts to the Two Witnesses, appointed by God to also prophesy for 1,260 days. Rather than concentrating on their identities, the hosts emphasize their purpose. Their ministry overlaps with the period of Jerusalem’s trampling, serving as a powerful testimony during a time of intense opposition.
The witnesses are granted extraordinary authority and call down fire, shut the heavens from rain, turn water to blood, and strike the earth with plagues. All of these echo the ministries of Moses and Elijah, yet their exact identities remain unspecified in this episode. No one can harm the witnesses until their mission is complete which is when the beast from the abyss is allowed to kill them. This apparent victory is short-lived because after 3½ days, God raises the witnesses to life and calls them up to heaven in full view of their enemies. This dramatic sequence reinforces that in moments of apparent defeat, God remains fully in control and vindicates His servants.
The episode concludes by noting that with the second woe now complete, the narrative moves forward toward the seventh trumpet and the culmination of God’s redemptive plan. This passage serves as both a warning and a reassurance that God measures, protects, empowers, and ultimately triumphs
Introduction
SPEAKER_01Hello everyone. Welcome to our podcast called On Guard, Discerning Truth and End Times. My name is Gordon Douglas, and I'm here with my brother Mark.
SPEAKER_02Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us again today. We're glad to have you back with us.
SPEAKER_01We are so glad that you continue to listen to us in this podcast. We are getting close to the end of season two. In fact, today is episode 12. We are not ready to stop for now, so we've decided this spring to actually complete 15 episodes.
SPEAKER_02That's right. We think with this episode, plus three more, we will get to a good stopping point for the spring. And Gordon wants a three-episode summer session, but I have a wedding to host for my youngest daughter, so I think that is unlikely to happen. We aren't sure about that decision yet, but we'll let everybody know.
SPEAKER_01We're having a great time studying and preparing these episodes. I'm not quite sure what we will do with ourselves between seasons. I'm going to try to get my golf handicapped down a little bit. Hopefully I can get Mark to do that too, although his daughter's wedding planning is going to keep him busy.
SPEAKER_02We'll see how things go. You know, these episodes take a good amount of dedicated time to prepare, actually, more than most would understand. If you want three episodes in the summer, you might be on your own.
SPEAKER_01I don't think that's going to work. Two minds are always better than one. All right, let's get going. Today we will dive into Revelation chapter 11. We are still looking for that seventh trumpet, but we are not going to get it today. We have two very interesting topics in these 13 verses to cover, and it will take all of today's episode to get through the details.
SPEAKER_02I know you wanted to use the word fascinating to describe these topics. It is hard to think about any other word. Hey, how about we use really intriguing or exhilarating or maybe exciting? You know, those words would work in that sentence too. I know people are wondering if we will ever talk about chapters or verses that we think aren't important or fascinating.
SPEAKER_01I know. Just for the record, I don't think there are any chapters and verses which aren't incredible in their significance. You know that's a double negative.
SPEAKER_02What you meant to say is all the chapters and verses in the Bible are incredibly significant.
John Must Continue to Prophesy
SPEAKER_01And even fascinating. Yes, as we study Revelation, the Bible is running out of real estate, as they say. I mean, there's so much left to say and only a few more chapters to say it in. So I guess we ought to get going today. Let's start where we ended last week. Remember, we were discussing trumpets five through seven, and we said those trumpets are also called the three woes. And we said between the sixth and seventh trumpets, John was told that he needed to go back and prophesy more about what was happening and going to happen. In the final verse of Revelation 10, after that sixth trumpet was described, he was told, quote, you must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and languages and kings, end quote. And in response to that assignment, we get 13 verses which provide John with new information to share. For today, we're going to break down those first 13 verses of new information from Revelation 11 into two sections. The first is verses 1 and 2 about measuring a temple. And then second, verses 3 through 13, which is about two witnesses who prophesy for 1,260 days.
SPEAKER_02Both of these sections have been a fun part of many debates for many people over the years. We really will get into them today. And just so everyone knows, Gordon and I have debated this section more than we have any other verses so far. I thought the episode on the remnant was difficult. This episode has really been a tough one to get through.
SPEAKER_01No doubt. This chapter has been very difficult for us to agree on. I think you might be able to tell that today as we go forward in the discussion.
SPEAKER_02So as we start, I want to play an audio clip for you regarding some current news. We believe this clip is absolutely pertinent for today's discussion. It is unbelievable the timeliness of what is happening in the Middle East and our study of Revelation. The following audio clip just enhances how aware we really need to be. The clip comes from an announcement which was made by Iran's crown prince Reza Pahlavi. For you that don't know, he is the exiled son of Iran's last Shah.
SPEAKER_01So before you play it, let me give a quick history lesson. The last Shah of Iran, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, was driven from power during the 1979 Iranian Revolution when mass unrest and Ayatollah Khomeini's movement brought down the monarchy. These uprisings led to the creation of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which we know is the terrorist regime in power today. After leaving Iran, the royal family lived in exile mostly in the United States, especially around the Washington, D.C. area. The Shah passed away in July 1980, but his son, Reza Pahlavi, who is the Shah's eldest son, is widely known as Iran's exiled crown prince. Pallavi is trying to position himself publicly as a transition figure in today's current conflict, though he has not been officially installed in any such role at the time of this taping. However, his current position as the crown prince of Iran potentially positions him to be very influential on what takes place next. Listen to his comments from March the 7th, 2026.
SPEAKER_00To all of our friends around the world, under the yoke of the Islamic Republic, Iran is identified in your minds with terrorism, extremism, and poverty. The real Iran is a different Iran. A beautiful, peace-loving, and flourishing Iran. So let me be clear about how a free Iran will act towards its neighbors and the world after the fall of this regime. Iran's nuclear military program will end. Support for terrorist groups will cease immediately. In diplomacy, relations with the United States will be normalized, and our friendship with America and her people will be restored. The State of Israel will be recognized immediately. We will pursue the expansion of the Abraham Accords into the Cyrus Accords, bringing together a free Iran, Israel, and the Arab world.
SPEAKER_02I know many of you listening may be asking, what's the big deal? Well, this announcement, at least for me, is a big deal. As we get in today's topic, we will come back to this and tell you why. Hang on for the ride today. It's going to be a good one.
Is There a Future Temple?
SPEAKER_01So let's start with the scripture in Revelation. Revelation 11, verses 1 and 2 says, quote, Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there. But do not measure the court outside the temple, leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. End quote.
Believers Are the Temple of God
SPEAKER_02Do you think of a physical structure or a spiritual application? Do you see both of these viewpoints in these verses or just one of them? These two simple verses might mean more than what you first see or hear. We know God sometimes speaks one sentence into Scripture which has dual meanings. These two verses just might be pulling our attention in two different paths at the same time. On one path, the focus of the verses seems very earthly and physical and even very Jewish. We know Israel desires peace through some form of covenant or treaty arrangement, and the worldly circumstances around us seem to be moving toward the rebuilding of a physical temple in Jerusalem. The audio clip we played supports that even the crown prince of Iran seems to be somewhat on this path. It fits naturally with the language of measuring a physical temple, an altar, and a city that later will be trampled by the nations. But on the other hand, something else is happening at the same time. While the Gentile world is being drawn into a broader, global spirit of political unity, international goodwill, and growing pressure to conform, God is also awakening a faithful remnant of believers to stand firm on his doctrines and beliefs. In that path, the New Testament adds an important layer to the discussion. Scripture repeatedly reminds us that God's true dwelling is not connected to a building made with hands, but that he dwells in true believers through the Holy Spirit. God's temple is alive on the earth, wherever his people remain faithful to him.
SPEAKER_01So before we jump too quickly to the bricks, stones, and sacred geography, we need to pause and recognize what the Bible teaches us about the new covenant and God's true temple. There is a spiritual reality that the New Testament makes impossible to ignore. Please do not miss the point I want to make here. Ephesians chapter 2, verse 18 to 22 is speaking of believing Jews and Gentiles when it says, quote, For through him we both have access in one spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure being joined together grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Holy Spirit, end quote. And then first Corinthians chapter three, verses sixteen and seventeen says, quote, Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him, for God's temple is holy, and you are that temple, end quote. And then in Second Corinthians, chapter six, verse sixteen, it says, For we are the temple of the living God. As God said, I will make my dwelling place among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people, end quote. And then last, 1 Peter chapter 2, verses 4 and 5 says, quote, as you come to him, a living stone, rejected by men, but in the sight of God, chosen and precious, you yourselves, like living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ, end quote. These verses say that we believers are individually and collectively now the temple of God. There was a physical building that was the temple of God and was the dwelling place of God on earth, but now there is a new temple of God with Jesus as the cornerstone. The apostles and prophets are the foundation. We as a people of God are the structure. The body of Christ in its completeness will be the full structure. We are headed to a time after the millennium ends where God Himself will dwell with his people. In Revelation chapter 21, verse 3, Scripture says that the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. The body of Christ in its completeness will be all members of the believing body of Christ. This body will include what we know as the church, and it will include the remnant of Jewish people who will join it when all Israel is saved. This body of Christ is not complete until all Gentiles have come in and the remnant of Jews has been saved. When I read these two verses here in Revelation, I can see it applying to the body of Christ as the temple. I know this interpretation could make the application of these two verses more symbolic than physical, and I know that causes you issues.
The Text Sounds like a Structure
SPEAKER_02Yes, it does. But we can never forget your point about believers being the active temple of God. That statement is true. I mean, it's scripturally supported. I love the application it gives us. God has always wanted to dwell with us. He has put so many structures in place over time to prove that point. I would be wrong to minimize what you've just said. It's clear after the millennium ends, God will put a permanent structure in place where He lives with us forever. We will get to this once we get to the end of our study of Revelation. But the language in these verses does not read like an abstraction or symbology to me. I read them as though a real physical temple is being measured. As you know, I really struggle reading them any other way. I know the Jewish people want their temple to be built, and the Antichrist needs a high, holy place to sit to claim to be God. So these verses have to be describing a real temple, don't they? Well, yes and no.
SPEAKER_01On the one hand, I do not see anywhere in Scripture where God explicitly commands his people to build a third temple in the end times. That absence of a clear, God-given mandate matters to me. What I do see clearly and repeatedly in the New Testament is God declaring that his people are now his temple. That's why I struggle with the idea that in these verses, God's primary concern would be the protection or measuring of a structure made by human hands, especially one he never directly instructed to be built. At this point in the timeline, I believe God's deepest concern is for the people who truly belong to him, not merely for a building that he already knows will be defiled, overrun, and desecrated by evil. At the same time, I do not want to dismiss the physical side of the prophecy. I do believe there will be a literal temple standing in the end times. The prophetic language surrounding the man of lawlessness, the abomination of desolation, and the trampling of the holy city all point us in that direction. So my answer is not that there will be no temple, but that the greater emphasis of God may not be on the structure itself. The spiritual reality behind the passage is that God is marking, measuring, and distinguishing those who are truly His. For our discussion today, we're going to hold both ideas together. A real temple will likely be built in Jerusalem, but God's true temple remains the people in whom his spirit dwells. We'll explain that connection more fully as we move forward. Again, for me, these two verses are among some of the more complicated verses to try and pinpoint exactly what is happening and how it fits into the overall framework of the timeline. We never want to be dogmatic about complicated parts of Scripture, and we're trying our best to be open to hear what the Lord says about these passages so we can convey the correct message.
Define "Measurement"
SPEAKER_02Our goal isn't to prove we can decode every detail. Our goal is to trust the God who does know the meaning, full timeline, and to watch carefully and to stay faithful to him, due in part to the physical interpretation of the temple. We are going to spend time talking through its history in this episode. Whether you believe these two verses are symbolic or not, it is clear the Antichrist does need a temple, a future temple, where he can sit and claim to be God.
SPEAKER_01So let's start breaking down those first two verses. To understand it, we need to discuss that word measurement. So why does God measure anything? What is he trying to communicate with that activity? That word in this context has never really meant anything to me. I've always had a hard time understanding it.
SPEAKER_02I know. You and I have spent weeks on this preparation. Our research found five biblical examples of individuals who've been asked by God to measure something. The individuals involved in the measuring were in the books of Ezekiel, Zechariah, Amos, and Revelation. It seems to me that when God asked these four men and one angel to measure something, he is essentially communicating one of a couple of possible ideas or combinations of these ideas. So the first one, ownership or possession. The idea is that this object, the thing being measured, belongs to God. His measurement marks off his space or his domain. The second one, a comparison against a standard. The idea is that this object, the thing being measured, either meets the standard or it doesn't. God's measurement reveals what is straight and what is crooked, what is to his level of quality and what is not. God is assessing or comparing the object against what he requires. Number three, size or limits, boundaries. Certainly we understand measuring the size of something, but the idea here is more than this object is bounded, limited, or enclosed in some way. The place or object with the boundary or enclosure is being set apart with God being in control. God's measurement would be counting what is in it and what is therefore outside of it. Alright? And lastly, sort of a blueprinting or a functional design characteristic. The idea is that this object is planned or that this object will be built, restored, or is to appear like something. God's measurement is his determination as to whether it came into form like it was desired. You know, is it precisely what it was meant to be? Think of the ark or the temple, and there's probably a few others out there.
SPEAKER_01So that's that's good, that's really good information. I think I already get it better than I did before. I can start to see what is going on here. So in the passages mentioned earlier, these men were asked to measure different things. In Ezekiel 40 through 48, Ezekiel was asked to measure a future temple complex, gates, courts, chambers, sanctuary dimensions, etc. This one in this example is clearly in the blueprint or functional category. Then in Zechariah 2, an unidentified man was asked to measure the city of Jerusalem. So this is likely a combination of categories like maybe its size and boundary limits, or maybe showing it as God's possession. Then in Amos 7, Amos was asked to apply a plumb line against Israel. This one is clearly comparing Israel to God's standards and laws. And then in Revelation, John was asked to measure the temple, the altar, and the worshipers who are there. This is the one we're discussing today. This is the one we're going to get to at a later time, and it's likely a couple of the categories, and we'll talk more about those. In Revelation 21, in a future chapter, an angel is asked to measure the new Jerusalem. We think this one is about the blueprint or functional design, but it could also include ownership and possession or size and limits.
SPEAKER_02With those four categories and our understanding of the language being used here, let's read the two verses from Revelation again. So chapter 11, verse 1 through 2, quote, Then I was given a measuring rod, like a staff, and I was told, Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple. Leave that out. For it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months, unquote. As we said above, we believe God told John to measure the temple. If the temple God is referring to is the third temple, then the measuring John is requested to complete addresses the size or limits and the functional and design categories. These are two of the categories we talked about earlier. And we see further detail from the two verses about the areas surrounding the temple. The verses say it will be trampled by the nations of the world. This can be interpreted to mean that expanded area is not under the control of the Jewish nation. And it is more likely the control of the Muslims or the Gentile nations. God is telling John that the temple will exist and that it is a real structure, but that there are no outer courts and gates, just the inner parts of it.
"House of the Lord"
SPEAKER_01I agree with what Mark says about the physical temple. But if the temple God is referring To is the body of Christ in its fullness, then that fullness means the full measure of Gentiles who will believe, plus the remnant of Jewish people who will one day believe. The measuring has to do with protecting and taking possession of this full body of believers. God will not let this body be overrun or defeated, even though these times will be filled with greater tribulation than in any time in history.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so we're going to circle back to a conclusion when we get to the end of the section, but we want to take this opportunity to talk about the history of the temple. What made the temple and tabernacle special for the nation of Israel? Was it the location? Was it the structure? Was it the materials? Was it the fact that sacrifices and offerings were being made there? The answer is no to all those questions. None of those things made it special. It was special because it was the house of the Lord. God's purpose for the temple structure and its original intent was that his presence would dwell there in the midst of his chosen people. The glory of God was really right there inside the building with his people. When the Lord put his name on that place and his glory filled it, the tabernacle and then the first temple became the visible reminder that Israel's God was not distant. He was dwelling among them.
SPEAKER_01The Jewish temple held immense spiritual, historical, and cultural significance to the Jewish people. God was the one who gave Moses the design for the tabernacle and David the design for the first temple, although his son Solomon built it. The temple was the earthling dwelling place of God's presence, his Shekinah glory, for some time. Unfortunately, God's presence left the first temple at some point. We'll come back to that point in a minute. The Holy of Holies housed the Ark of the Covenant. In the first temple, God was present and lived there between the cherubim on the ark. This was regarded as the most sacred site on earth. The temple represented God's covenant with Israel and his promise to dwell among his people. The temple was a central place for offering sacrifices as prescribed in the Torah. These sacrifices were acts of atonement, thanksgiving, and dedication to God. The priests performed daily offerings, lit the menorah, burned incense. The temple's role emphasized spiritual discipline and connection with the creator of the universe. Remarkably, both Solomon's temple, the first one, and Herod's temple, the second, were destroyed by invaders and on the same day of the Hebrew calendar, hundreds of years apart, the ninth of Ab.
History of Tabernacle
SPEAKER_02In front of the temple was the altar, which was also important. The altar was the site for offering sacrifices to God as commanded in the Torah. This altar stood in the court of the priest, between the temple and the court of Israel. In Solomon's temple, the altar appears to have been made of bronze and of immense size, thirty feet square and fifteen feet high. A ramp was necessary to gain access to it. The sacrificial blood spilled on the altar was seen as a means of atoning for the sins of the people, allowing for reconciliation with God. The altar was a focal point for the nation of Israel's worship, particularly during festivals like Passover, when communal offerings were being made.
History of 1st Temple
SPEAKER_01There have been multiple construction efforts throughout Israel's history to build temples as a dwelling place of God, the house of God. There have been three efforts so far. The first house of God was called the tabernacle. After the Exodus out of Egypt, God commanded Moses to build a portable sanctuary in the wilderness so he could dwell among his people as they journeyed. Per Exodus chapter 25, 8 and 9. When it was completed, the glory of the Lord filled it, and from that point on, the tabernacle functioned as Israel's spiritual center. It was the place where God's name was honored, where priests ministered, where sacrifices and atonement were made, and where God's people learned that access to a holy God required holiness, mediation, and blood. Moses would go to the tabernacle to talk face to face with God. God's presence was in the pillar of cloud or fire which stayed above this tabernacle. When Moses came out to meet with God, that cloud descended onto that tabernacle as God fellowshipped with Moses. The people would stand at their tents and see it happening. Thus they knew God was talking to Moses. The tabernacle moved with Israel from Sinai through the wilderness and into the land until the days when worship was transitioned to a permanent house in Jerusalem under Solomon.
History of 2nd Temple
SPEAKER_02The second house of God was called Solomon's Temple, also known as the first temple. In 2 Samuel 7, verse 1 to 3, David is bothered that he is living in a house of cedar, but that the tabernacle where God lived was still in a tent. God responds through the prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 7, verse 4 through 13. God does not tell David, Yes, you build it. Instead, God flips the conversation and says to David that God was going to build a house dynasty that would forever rule and reign. And then God commands David to design the temple, but that only his son Solomon would be able to build it. In 1 Kings chapter 8, 1 through 11, it tells the story of the dedication of Solomon's temple. And like the tabernacle, the glory of God moved into this first temple right around 957 BC. When sacrifices and offerings were made to God at this temple, they were made to God who was really right there with them. God's glory remained in that temple for almost 400 years. But there came a time when what was going on in Jerusalem got so detestable to God that he could no longer stay. Ezekiel chapter 10 describes the time when God's glory left the temple, which was around 586 BC. This was when Jerusalem was getting ready to be punished because of their rebellion and sin. God was going to allow Jerusalem and his temple to be destroyed, which occurred when it was destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar, shortly after God's presence left in 586 BC. Nebuchadnezzar seized the city and took a wave of Jews into captivity back to Babylon.
SPEAKER_01The third house of God was called the Second Temple, also known as Herod's Temple, after his renovation many years after its original construction. After the Medes and the Persians had conquered Babylon, King Cyrus eventually allowed many of the Jews to go back to Jerusalem. God began to stir the hearts of the exiled Jewish leaders and the Persian king. Scripture clearly says in Ezra chapter 1, verses 1 through 4, that the decree of Cyrus to rebuild the temple was stirred up in him by the Lord. Then Ezra 1, 5 says God also stirred the heads of the families, priests and Levites, to go up and build. The people participated willingly, but Scripture presents the rebuilding as something God initiated and moved the exiles to do. The exiles began to build a second temple around 538 BC. This was only 70 years or so after the first temple had been destroyed. The new temple was completed in 515 BC. Hear this truth, though. Although God was part of the second temple building project, he never moved back into that temple in the same way as he had done in the first temple. God did continue to deem this temple holy, though. This second temple was then desecrated by Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC. However, it was not destroyed like in the Babylonian invasion. The temple was then rededicated, was enlarged and remodeled by King Herod around 37 B.C., which is why it became known as Herod's Temple. This second temple is the one we see in the Gospels when Jesus was living, and the one that he got so mad at in the scriptures. Remember, he said they were turning his father's house into a market. That second temple was then destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans as part of ending the Jewish rebellion. The only thing that remains from that temple is the western wall, which we know as the wailing wall.
SPEAKER_02Wow, so that's a quick history lesson on these houses of God. Mount Moriah, the hill where both of Israel's temples once stood, carries an amazing biblical heritage. Believe it or not, this mount is also tied to the moment when Abraham was called to offer Isaac. And then again later, it is linked to the threshing floor of Unranna, the Jebuzite, where David was instructed to build an altar near the end of his reign. In other words, this location was not random or merely a traditional location. Scripture presents it as a place God Himself set apart as a uniquely holy place. This site was certainly handpicked by God to be the most holy place.
SPEAKER_01That site is still referred to as the Temple Mount. It is a large platform, about nine football fields in size. The Al-Aqsa Mosque and a Muslim shrine, we know as the Dome of the Rock, are located there. This site is one of the most contentious places in the world. There is no longer a Jewish temple on that mount. It shouldn't take much for you to understand how God feels about what stands on this most holy place. He is not happy about it. In 1967, during the Six-Day War between Israel and Jordan, Israel regained control of the Temple Mount. In order to keep the peace, Israel yielded control and administration of it to the Islamic Waf, which is the Muslim religious trust overlooking the site. With what we just discussed about measurement and knowing there is no temple there now, how can John, in this vision from Revelation, accomplish the task of measuring the altar and the people? How can we bring this information back around to our revelation study and its implications on end times, Mark?
Where is God's Command to Build a 3rd Temple
SPEAKER_02You're correct. There's currently no physical temple for the Jewish people. And without the temple, sacrifices and offerings can't be made according to their religious doctrines. So we dug and dug in scripture looking for a divine command from God that might be a verse or the implication in a verse telling the Jews to build a third temple. We have shown the first three houses of God have God in the movement for them to be built, but we cannot find a command to build this third temple. So what gives? Scripture appears to tell us there will be a new temple built. So in Daniel chapter 9, verse 27, the verse implies sacrifices will be happening at the time the Antichrist is around. It says he, the Antichrist, will put an end to sacrifice and offerings. That language strongly suggests a functioning sacrificial system has restarted by that time. It appears that it is something that requires a temple, or at least a temple-like sanctuary complex.
SPEAKER_012 Thessalonians chapter 2, verse 3 and 4 describes a temple of God connected to the man of lawlessness. Paul says this figure takes his seat in the temple of God and sets himself up as God. Many read that as a literal building of some sort that is functioning as a temple in Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_02And in Matthew chapter 24, verse 15, it points to a future abomination of desolation in a holy place. Jesus treats Daniel's abomination as something his disciples should watch for. A holy place naturally evokes a sanctuary or a temple type setting. And then if you read into Revelation 11, verses 1 to 2's language, that he is describing a physical structure, then John is measuring the temple of God and the altar. That interpretation reads like an operating religious site with an altar and identifiable sacred zones. It's very temple-like language.
SPEAKER_01So the combination of these scriptures has made many conclude that there will be some type of functioning temple during the end times, although God never authorizes it. This conclusion is a contentious one. Many will say that it is not possible to accomplish the rebuilding project. Arguments against this happening are summarized into these three. Number one, building a Jewish temple on the mount would be treated as a fundamental change to the post-1967 status quo and would trigger huge international and religious disputes over sovereignty of the site.
SPEAKER_02There is a high likelihood of a project like that sparking widespread riots, terrorism, and potentially regional conflict in the Middle East. This type movement is considered a spark in a powder keg across the Middle East.
SPEAKER_01And third, for Muslims, any temple project is widely perceived as a threat to the allocation of the Rock and to Islamic claims over the site. For years, many have argued the Dome of the Rock would have to be moved, desecrating that religious site.
SPEAKER_02We know to this point Israel has been unable or unwilling to press forward on rebuilding that future temple. However, from my visits to Israel, I have seen there are temple rebuild like organizations in place. A couple of them started in 1987 and were set up to begin preparations for the building of that third temple. The movement is slow moving, but it is real and actually in place. The Jewish people leading this movement want to be prepared if something were to open up for the opportunity for them to build a new temple. And there is even training and special schooling being done to teach the special duties of priests and the use of ritual vessels on a newly constructed temporary altar. The temple altar was built in such a way that it can be disassembled and quickly reassembled in a permanent temple location. We know there are activities going on behind the scenes to prepare for this temple to be built. We will just have to wait and see what happens.
"Cyrus Accords"
SPEAKER_01We believe God's word is true, and all of it is true. If so, then it must be said that God will make a way. When it is time, there will be a way to address all the concerns mentioned above, and there are many, many more. As we are working on this episode, Israel and the U.S. started bombing Iran in epic fury. Could this bombing of Iran make that path happen? I hate to keep beating this drum, but I believe Daniel's mention of a future treaty must be the next thing to occur which starts the end time 70th week. I offer as a possibility that this new treaty would include some agreement that will allow Israel to rebuild some type of temple and maybe even restart sacrifices.
SPEAKER_02So at this point in today's podcast, please reflect back on the opening audio clip that we played. Crown Prince Pahlavi's comments are super important, and here's why. We have mentioned the Abraham Accords Treaty back in the Birth Pains episode we did last year. That treaty is a set of agreements in which Israel established diplomatic relations with the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco. The core themes are mutual recognition, peace, opening embassies, expanding trade, tourism, direct flights, investment, technology, and broader regional cooperation. The declaration also says the treaty will push an effort to reduce conflict in the Middle East and promote coexistence among Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Well, I just learned about another proposed treaty being talked about, and it is coming from Prince Pahlavi, who we heard from at the beginning. This one is so so remarkable. There is a proposed framework of a new treaty which he is pushing, and its working title is the Cyrus Accords. That should give you goosebumps. And here's why. The framework of the agreement is again working towards peace and normalization between a post-Islamic Republic, Iran, Israel, and potentially many of the Arab states, is being proposed to operate with a future Iran without the current regime. This framework is being proposed by Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi. We played his words for you at the beginning. The audio is from March 7th, 2026, and is associated with an Israeli newspaper titled Hayam. Pahlavi describes the Cyrus Accords as a vision coming closer and closer to becoming reality. In the audio clip, Pahlavi wants to broaden the Abraham Accords into the Cyrus Accords. The newspaper goes on to quote Pahlavi as citing the name of the ancient Persian king, Cyrus the Great. Hear this Cyrus the Great. Cyrus the Great is the one who let the Jews return from exile in Babylon, which is modern-day Iran, to Zion to rebuild the second temple we just described. Pallavi characterized the new era that we're in, once the Ayatollahs are gone, as one grounded in mutual recognition, sovereignty, and national interest. If you remember the type codes we discussed a few episodes ago, this is exactly what's going on. Imagine this idea. King Cyrus may actually be speaking again from his grave, enabling the Jews to rebuild a third temple.
Is the Temple Mount Big Enough
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. What timeliness, man. But to be really clear, there's no clause in any of these agreements or treaties that refer to a rebuilt Jewish temple. None. But the language in the treaty document speaks to a normalization between majority Islamic nations and Israel. And the language used in an August 13th, 2020 joint statement also said, quote, the Al-Aqsa Mosque is for Muslim prayer, and Jerusalem's other holy site should remain open for peaceful worshipers of all faiths, end quote. That language is absolutely about holy site access and coexistence. It does not amount to a temple building clause, but one could argue that regional agreements are already nudging holy site language in direction that could someday matter.
SPEAKER_02I anticipate the building of a literal third temple in our future. I believe there is scriptural support for it, Jewish preparation and planning for it, and now potentially treaty-like language that could support it. There are issues that still need to be worked out, but I believe the pieces are being put in place. Like you, I visited Israel several years ago. I had an opportunity to get my own view of that landscape. I took my own pictures and have assembled what I believe to be a valid option for how the temple can exist on that mount. The completed photo is on our website at www.ongar244.com. I believe the temple portion of the Jewish complex can be rebuilt again without the outer courts as part of the structure. And the Holy of Holy portion of the temple, which is the most important part, can be built to align directly with the Eastern Gate and Mount of Olives entry, which would also fulfill prophecy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I stood on that very site where the Holy of Holies is thought to have been back in November. There's no building right there. There is a small gazebo right now. There is definitely room to put this temple on that spot without moving the dome of the rock, that shrine. It won't be as big as the original Jewish temples and might not even have an outer court. This also may support the idea that John is to measure just the temple and not the outer courts. I don't think this rebuilt temple can have that outer court. So there won't be an outer court to be measured, in our opinion. And the Gentiles would be considered to be trampling on it.
SPEAKER_02So as we close out this section, we want to make sure to speak to the timing. Verse 2 says that the holy city will be trampled for 42 months. The holy city mentioned in the verse is the city of Jerusalem. So we see that control of Jerusalem will be given over to the nations and the Antichrist reign for three and a half years or 42 months. We will soon talk about the Antichrist and his time of authority in a later chapter. This time period is clearly talking about the three and a half year period we know as the Great Tribulation. This is the back half of Daniel's 70th week. He is given exactly 42 months to do his thing. That lines up with the 42 months that the nations are overrunning Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_01Please remember what we said at the beginning. During the Great Tribulation, there are two simultaneous things happening. God is strengthening the body of Christ and will not stop until it reaches its fullness. And the nation of Israel will be attempting to do their Jewish thing involving this temple structure.
SPEAKER_02Okay, we need to move on to the next part of the chapter, which gives details about what everyone knows is called the two witnesses. I don't think we will have time to complete this discussion today, but we can certainly read it and move through as far as we can. We will likely have to conclude it next week. So let's read Revelation chapter 11, verses 3 through 13. It says, quote, and I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if any one would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If any one would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. They have the power to shut the sky that no rain shall fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they desire. And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodomon, Egypt, where the Lord was crucified. For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, Come up here, and they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is soon to come.
SPEAKER_01I know everybody has heard about these verses. They have intrigued people over the years. Like the temples, these two witnesses are always a subject that creates discussion and debate. The text introduces two witnesses who are given an assignment to prophesy and provide testimony. There has been so much disagreement and discussion about their identities. We'll eventually talk about who they might be, but we care less about their identity than about what they are assigned to do. So, Mark, what are these witnesses doing, and how does it relate to this time or the previous information we just discussed?
SPEAKER_02You're right. There's a lot going on in these 11 verses which will demand more time than we have left today. So let me try and answer this first question. I think the language used in the verses is about authority being given from God for a 1,260-day period. The verse tells us that these witnesses will be on the scene for the entire three and a half year period of the Great Tribulation. We just got through being told that the nations will overrun Jerusalem for that same period of time. 1,260 days is 42 months, which is three and a half years. So while the world is facing this great tribulation and God's people are facing tremendous persecution, God sends two witnesses to make sure certain things happen and certain messages are conveyed. He gives these witnesses authority to protect and empower them to accomplish their task. Scripture says they are wearing sackcloth, which is clothing typically representative of mourning, lamentation, and woe. Here I think it means that the two witnesses are calling out the nations and telling them to repent for their actions and beliefs, and telling them to reconsider their perspective because they are wrong. Simultaneously, I believe they will offer a final gospel message of hope, including one of grace and mercy, to anyone who will be willing to hear it and repent. The eternal gospel will be preached to the world in a powerful and global message. God is offering salvation to those who will repent and turn to Him even at this late time. This message will not be stopped.
SPEAKER_01I believe this relates to the measuring of the people who worship in the temple, as that previous verse said in verse 1 and 2. As God is not going to stop offering his mercy and grace until every single person who would believe actually does believe. But I know that is moving us back to the previous discussion. That's right.
SPEAKER_02These two witnesses will be standing up against the whole wave of the worldly system and empire of the Antichrist. He will be controlling most, if not all, of the world's systems of finance, economics, and military power. These witnesses will be a thorn in the side of the Antichrist, his empire and the people who just simply will not hear the message. The world will be raging against the one true God and those who follow Jesus. These two witnesses will point out their sin and rebellion against God, and they will stand firm against all that the evil empire is doing. And interestingly, the witnesses cannot be stopped. God has given them authority and protection, and they will continue to stand on that fact.
Plan for Next Week
SPEAKER_01They will be in Jerusalem offering judgment against the world and its system for the entire time of the Great Tribulation until the moment when their message is complete. At that moment, the Antichrist will kill both of them. We speculate there is a likely link between their message completing its task and the last believer repenting and coming to Jesus. All of this comes together as the fullness of the Gentiles is reached and the body of Christ is complete.
SPEAKER_02There are many, many more pieces to these verses on the witnesses that we need to discuss. There are several clues and then some new information that comes to light in the verses. But we don't have time for that all today. We'll have to pick it up again next week.
SPEAKER_01Next week, we'll start with these two witnesses again and we'll answer the following five questions. Are these two witnesses people? Or are these two witnesses symbols for something? Number two, if they are people, who might they be? If not, what might they represent? Third, can we determine when they will appear and how they will fit into the timeline of the seven-year period of the Great Tribulation? Fourth, who is this beast that rises from the bottomless pit and kills them? And then fifth, does their death and resurrection correlate with the first resurrection and the rapture? Thank you so much for listening to us today and for sticking with us through this journey. You can subscribe to our podcast through your applications follow us button wherever you get your podcast. Also, please tell others about us if you can. Our main method of spreading our message is through fellow believers who are willing to forward it on. Please share this podcast with anyone you think might be willing to listen. Remember also that you can send us an email to notify at onguard244.com if you want to be on an email distribution list to receive a notification of new episodes and seasons. Please update your spam controls to make sure our notification does not get redirected there. Our notification will come from no reply at onguard244.com. Once again, you can find us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and iHeartRadio currently. Also, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook or at our website www.onguard244.com. If you have a comment or any ideas for us, then send messages to comment at ongar244.com. Thank you for listening. See you next week. See you next week.
